This is Amiga Roundtable Episode 47. For the week of September 12, 2010.
A Sunday with Trevor.
Rich: Amiga roundtable Episode 47. Rich Lawrence along with you. And Of course
Bill P. here as well. And we have got Trevor Dickinson here in just a moment.
He's going to answer some questions. Actually, let's go ahead and get started
with those questions. We are going to start this question from Wiktor from
adknocks.pl. I'm guessing a Polish Amiga site. First question: Did you ever
consider cooperating with the MorphOS team, as a hardware provider, as you do
with Hyperion right now?
Trevor: Me personally, or A-EON?
Rich: I think they are asking about A-EON.
Trevor: Okay, well A-EON includes Ben Hermans as a shareholder, and so first
off obviously his interests must be AmigaOS, as Hyperion Entertainment are the
developers of AmigaOS. So, first off, no, we didn't think of MorphOS.
Rich: Okay, Is that something you think you might see later on in the future.
Trevor: Well, I'm an Amiga of all flavors if that makes sense. And, I've been
supporting and using all parts or the hues of the Amiga for the last 15 or 20
years. And I include Commodore before that of course, so for the last 30 odd
years. So, my second favorite operating system is MorphOS. I can say it. My
first is Amiga OS4.
Rich: Okay, so you are basically very moderate when it comes to the Amiga
Community.
Trevor: I think I was fortunate. It sounds bad this, but from about 2000 after
my PowerPC '060 Cyberstorm went "kaput" and I sent it back to Phase5 to be
repaired, just in the late '90s actually. They went bust, and I lost my PowerPC
card. So from about 2000 onwards, I drifted away from the scene and concentrated
on my main business. And so, fast forward to 2004, I start to read again about
Amiga. I started to get more interested again. I logged into Amigaworld. And, I
missed all the bitterness that went on for those 3 or 4 years. So, perhaps I was
lucky.
Rich: Well yeah, I mean, who really wants to deal with that kind of stuff?
Time: 2:53
Trevor: I don't. I mean, I say I like all flavors. But, I think if you lived
through that period and you were involved in the various flame wars that went on,
I can see why people might still carry some resentment. So I was fortunate enough
not to be involved in that. So therefore, perhaps I am a little more open-minded.
Rich: Now, based on that open-mindedness, would you personally, and this is in no
way asking what A-EON wants, what about having MorphOS ported to the X-1000?
Trevor: A-EON obviously is a hardware company. Some of the questions are about
software today, but we are a hardware company. We were setup primarily to
develop new Amiga Hardware. To bring new high level, high spec. Amiga hardware to
the Amiga scene. I would like to see all operating
systems on it, whether it is AROS, MorphOS, Linux, anything that has an Amiga
flavor or can be run on it, because it is obviously good for the computer, good
for the hardware. But, obviously we have limited resources. We don't have the
funds to pay for the porting of the software and the linux ports will be done free
of charge, and so anyone is free to port their software to the hardware when it is
out and available.
Rich: How long do you think it will take for the Linux ports? I take it they are
probably going on right now.
Trevor: There is a rudimentary linux port already which is used to test the
hardware. When I say "rudimentary", it is not for the average user.
We've had offers from a couple of people who want to port specific PowerPC linux
distributions to the new hardware. One I think will be quite quick, only from
the background and experience of the man who will be doing it.
Rich: Allright, can you share who that person is? Or is that...
Trevor: No, all I can say is the person was involved in the... (and of course I'm
going to get hit for this)... but, the person was involved in the manufacture of
the CPU we are using. So I can't say any more than that.
Rich: That's good, That's allright. I think that will keep people guessing for a
while and keep them going.
Trevor: Good. (Trevor and Rich laughing)
Rich: This question is from Leosh. I hope I'm pronounching that name right, another
Polish Amiga user.
Trevor: Hello to everyone in Poland. I was very impressed that they
turned up at the Vintage computer festival, just to see the launch of the AmigaOne
X-1000. They interviewed me at the time and I was very impressed that they came
all the way to England just for that show. So "Hi" to the guys that turned up.
Rich: Yeah, they sent in a ton of questions, as you saw. There are a lot of ".pl".
Trevor: We are going to have to put a link on our website to ".pl" because they
are very supportive.
Rich: Definately. So, this question from Leosh, he's saying that the Amiga
environment in Poland thinks that the AmigaOne is not a real Amiga by virtue or
lacking of right to the Mark Amiga. How will you take a stance on it?
Trevor: AmigaOne was an Amiga, a next generation Amiga. It has the word "Amiga"
in it. I understand his comment, and it obviously has to do with things that are
happening in other parts of the world with Commodore USA. I don't know how that
is going to turn out, to be honest. And, I suppose Hyperion will be discussing
with AmigaInc those issues. But as far as A-EON goes, A-EON technology is a
hardware company. We are bringing out a new AmigaOne computer. It is called the
X-1000. And for the last 8 years, next generation Amigas have been AmigaOnes,
with of course the SAMs that run Amiga OS4, I should point that out. There are
obviously other Amiga-like OS's out there that ran on other hardware or run on
other hardware. But as far as OS4 goes, the AmigaOne is the next generation
Amiga.
Rich: We got one question here from Germany. This is from Exec over at
Amigaworld.net. (coughing) We'll get beyond that... He wants to know, will you
be putting X-1000 main boards in the Commodore Amiga case?
Trevor: Which one is the Commodore Amiga case? Is that the Commodore Netherlands,
the Commodore Gaming? Because there's no other case out there, is there really,
at the moment? If it is Commodore Netherlands, obviously we are bringing the
AmigaOne X-1000 system out as a complete system with a customized case with the
hard drives, the beta tester is another matter. But,
for the commercial system it will include graphics cards, hard drives, CDs,
everything. So it is a system, complete. Anyone is free to take out their board
and put it into a Commodore gaming case if they wish. Mac people don't do that,
but if someone wants to see "Commodore" on their case, I don't have problems with
that.
Rich: Well, here is another thing too. I saw a question somewhere else, somebody
else sent in, wondering if you were going to sell the motherboard separate from
what you have.
Trevor: Everything changes, and as we know, economics and markets change all the
time. Our plan is to put out a complete system. Beta testers are the exception.
To keep the cost down for them, for shipping. for everything else, they are
getting the motherboard and the RAM. But the commercial system will be a
complete system.
Rich: Is it safe to say it is not out of the realm of possibility?
Trevor: Nothing is ever. Let's not be hard and fast. Our intention is (only to
sell the complete system), but nothing is written in stone.
Rich: Okay, yeah, that is your main thing. Just to reset with everybody who might
be joining us. We are talking with Trevor Dickinson from A-EON. The developers of
the new AmigaOne X1000 in partnership with Hyperion for the AmigaOS4.
TIME: 10:00
I'm Rich Lawrence of course. We've got Trevor and of course Bill P. in there as
well. Moving on the next question. This is also from Exec. Will you leave the
PPC architecture if the selling goes bad. (And I have my fingers crossed that it
won't)
Trevor: (laughing) So do I. We all know the arguments for and against. We've all
been through it from 1997, the Amiga Technology days, and post Commodore.
To be honest, and this might sound blue sky optimistic, but I see on the horizon on
the PowerPC side, there are so many new CPUs coming through, in the works,
which is bringing PowerPC and Power architecture up to a level which, and the price
will come down. One of the biggest problems with our system is cost, I admit
that. But it is only that cost because that is what it costs to build and the CPU
is a very expensive part of that. But I see on the horizon other PowerPC chips
coming along, which will prolong the life of the AmigaOne X-1000 or X-whatever
range. And if it goes to form, then I think there is no reason to move. The
biggest reason to move is that you can buy a Netbook or small PC for $300 or #200
that was built in the quantity of thousands or millions. And will be available
this year, and not next year because there will be a new model. Because that is
what hardware companies survive on, bringing out new models. I guess that is what
Commodore survived on, bringing out new models. I don't think we are in that field.
We are a dedicated group of enthusiasts, really, who want to keep the Amiga dream
alive as it was. Now there are lots of other reasons for changing and doing things
differently, but that is the way I look at it. And, if I can keep it going for
longer and extend its life and bring something more powerful, then that is what I
want to do. That was my decision and my choice. Will we go away from PowerPC?
You've got to again remember, A-EON is a hardware company and the effective owners of
AmigaOS4 are Hyperion Entertainment. They control the destiny of the AmigaOS4.
What their long-term views and aims are, that is a question really for Hyperion.
Rich: Allright, well actually I just found the question from the person who asked
about the motherboard only. It was actually from a Russian user.
Trevor: I can understand. You can see when shipping to Russia, you can see why
just a board might be better for them. But to start off with, we are selling
systems.
Rich: Yeah, to get it rolling first. The same user who asked about the motherboard
only, also wanted to know if there were any plans to work not only in the hardware
side, but also in the software side of OS4 to bring more full-time developers to
help move things along quickly. I would think that kind of thing you probably want
to keep close to your chest.
Trevor: Yes, well A-EON, as I said, is a hardware company and we are primarily
focused on delivering hardware. Hyperion own the software.
That doesn't stop me as an individual from promoting software development for
specific projects and that is what I've been doing for the last 6 or 7 years
anyway, and I will continue doing that as a personal individual. But, A-EON itself
is a hardware company.
Rich: Okay, I'm going to switch over to some of the questions that Eddie sent me.
Have you got anything Bill? You've been kind of quiet.
Bill: Not at the moment, No.
Trevor: Bill, just chip in anytime you feel that you want to add something.
Rich: Yeah, don't be afraid.
Bill: I'm not afraid.
Rich: (humor) Don't leave it all to me Bill, come on, it's not like I'm working or
anything over here. So let's change gears a little bit. Let me see what Eddie
has got here. So, one of the things he wanted to know was, and this is under
his "logistics" list. He's got like how many questions? He sent me a ton of
questions. He's just as bad as the polish users. Who's deciding on the overall
strategy for A-EON and what kind of pedigrees or credentials do they have backing
them up?
Trevor:
The three principle shareholders are myself, Ben Hermans of Hyperion, and my long
term friend and business partner Tony Morley, who is not a computer specialist.
Tony and I had a long business relationship for 30+ years.
And, we've run successfull businesses, not computer related, but technology
businesses. And we are still in several businesses together, again not computer
related. That's our sort of business background. Hyperion, Ben Hermans, is a
patent lawyer or a patent counselor. And obviously he has been involved with
Hyperion for the last 10 years or so.
Rich: Yeah, I remember you saying that. There was a video on YouTube, I remember
you talking about that, about Ben being a lawyer. That must come in handy.
Trevor: Well, it also came in handy with this recent spat as you know.
Rich: Yeah, unfortunately. And probably another one shaping up unfortunately
as well.
Trevor: Well, who knows.
Rich: Hopefully this gets settled. Whatever is going to happen. Now was there
any attempt to try to get some of the former Commodore Amiga "greats" involved?
To try and get them in on the project to drum up even more excitement. You guys
did a pretty darn good job of drumming up excitement.
Trevor: It was amazing, wasn't it? It shows how an idea which was a little
seed, can turn into something else. The Christmas, or the new year publicity
generated by the "teaser" website, which we never called it the "teaser"
website. It got obviously nick-named the "teaser" website by the community
itself. I came up with an idea of let's start to release some information.
People need to know we are working on something. We've been doing it in secret
for 18 months, but let's release some information. It was Christmas and I
thought, "hey, how about an advent calendar"? Let's have some windows open in
the Advent calendar. Let's give a clue of something coming up. It wasn't a
very good idea, I admit. But fortunately Andrew Korn who was the deputy editor
of CU Amiga. One of the big mass circulation British magazines, but I think it
was sold world-wide. It was probably one of the better ones. He came up with
the idea of turning it into the website that eventually developed. So, that is
to answer the second part of the question. To answer the first part of the
question, to be honest, I have been looking for two or three years for some way
of helping to regenerate the Amiga market. In a way that was organic and part
of the community, rather than saying "here you are, this is what we are going to
do for you, that's it". If you look at some of the comments by some of the ex-
Amiga developers, some are quite pro what we are doing, and some are unsure. We
didn't approach any of the former Amiga people mainly because, I would say,
finances, money, and plans. If you focus and keep it small, you can control
the costs and let's get something first. The idea was "let's get something".
If you get someting, then you can expand it. But first of all you need to
focus on the prize, and the prize was to get a prototype system built and
running. Get something to market. We all know there has been too much talk
and not enough action. And I've found that in my business life that people
are great at talking, but sometimes you just have to get down and do the work.
And then you've got something. Talk is fine, but actions speak louder than
words.
Rich: Definately. I totally agree on that one. Expanding on that question,
let me ask you this. Let's play "Fantasy Amiga". Who would be the top three
people you would like to bring on the team if you could? Former Amiga
"greats".
Trevor: Former Amigans. Well, of course, the number one man is dead, so
unfortunately we can't speak about Jay. Dave Haynie because of his
involvement with Commodore and the early 2000, the 3000, and part of the 4000.
He is obviously steeped in that. Carl Sassenrath because of his pre-emptive
multitasking operating system. He does have a SAM system and is working to
port REBOL to the SAM, to OS4.
Rich: Yep. I was just reading about that yesterday on his blog and I plan on
getting in touch with him.
Trevor: I'm not sure whether it was ACube or myself who supplied that SAM.
I've forgotten which ones are out under my own hardware loan scheme. But he's
got a SAM system. I know it's a little slow, but it is coming along. And
then of course you look at all the other Amiga names. There are too many,
really, to pick out. We produced, you've seen the puzzle on Amigaworld
(cough). I created the puzzle. I created the collage. I left some of the
original Amiga developers out deliberately, to make it more complicated. I
actually got one of the wives of a developer contact me, asking why her
husband was not on the picture. So you have to be careful, but I was able to
explain that we left some names out so that made it more of a puzzle and that
Amigaworld would be publishing a new picture which included all of the faces
we could find from the original development team. That should be going up
soon I think.
Rich: Good. That was actually another one of the questions that Eddie had.
Who was helping to decide what the technical components are and shape of the
system?
Trevor: That's not me. I'm an Amigan and I'm quite technical, but I'm not a
specialist so I leave that to the hardware boys, that's Verisys, and the OS4
hardware beta team who are all Hyperion guys. I'm on the distribution list
I see all the e-mails that go backwards and forwards. But, they are far more
clever than I am and I leave that to them.
Rich: Now let me ask you though, this may be a side question, a tangent, but
we are known for those kinds of things. I saw this on one of the forums.
Somebody kind of dubbed you "The New Spirit of Amiga" What does that make you
think? They are comparing you to Peter.
Trevor: (laughing) It is scary really. In Britain, I don't know about the
States, but people are put on pedestals to be knocked off. I don't want to be
on a pedestal in the first place, and I certainly don't want to be knocked off.
I've been collecting Commodores and Amigas for the last 7 years, and so I've
amassed quite a collection. As I got the collection, I became more and more
enthusiastic. Does that make sense? And then, I started writing for Total
Amiga magazine, which is no longer with us. It was an excellent magazine by
Robert Williams and the Seal Amiga group. I started writing a series called
"The Amiga Retrospective" which was really a review of the Classic Amigas.
That's what it was supposed to be, how we got to where we are today through the
Classic Amigas. That got transferred to the Amiga Future magazine. The German
and English magazine. As I was researching that, and the whole thing
metamorphosed from Classic Amigas to the Amiga scene in all of its flavors.
And as I started writing and researching, I got even more and more enthusiastic
about the whole Amiga community and all the problems, the fights, the
heartache, the disappointments. It was almost like a soap opera. It's a
wonderful soap opera. And of course you see very much on the forums people say
"get the popcorn out and let's watch the drama unfold." It would make a
wonderful book I think.
TIME: 24:49
Rich: One thing I definately want to know is, What brand of popcorn is everyone
popping? Because I want to buy stock. Obviously the Amiga community pops more
popcorn than I know of and I want to make some money.
Somebody in the chat rooms, when I asked you about the title "Spirit of the
Amiga". He said "The Spirit of Amiga to Come". And, somebody else said "let's
make a church", and immediately what popped into my mind was "The church of the
Blessed Boing". Save on taxes Nexus said. You are not up for being a church?
Trevor: No, I'm certainly not. As an Amigan, I want this machine to be so
successfull because I want one. I want to use it as my daily machine. I'm
not afraid to say I use Windows. As I sit, around me I've got two Windows
machines on, an A1-XE, a Pegasos II. I've even got an Aries One and an Imica
Pro. So, I'm into all flavors. But, I really want there to be a new bespoke,
real Amiga computer.
Rich: We are talking with Trevor Dickinson from A-EON Technology.
We are talking to Trevor right now and we are asking him some questions from
listeners if you are just joining us in Ustream. Getting away from Eddie's
questions, because he sent me a ton of them. I still need to go through them
while we are talking. I found a really good one. This is from Len, he is also
a mechanic over on that other website (cough). Have any of the Nemo design
partners hinted at, suggested, or given opinions of possible cards for Xena
Xorro, or are they kind of pondering their options on that?
Trevor: We've actually recieved a number of interesting suggestions for use
of the Xena Xmos chip. One of the good things is we will be supplying a board
to a developer who is going to produce the programming tools for that board.
So that is very good. And, it is closely linked to the XMOS company itself.
So that is good, but if you take a look at the Xmos website, there is a wide
range for the use of these chips. And our partners Verisys are also thinking
of various ways to exploit this chip. I particularly want there to be
something that goes out with the first system. As a demonstration of an
example of what can be achieved with our commercial systems. We are also
upgrading the Xmos section and I'll give you more on that later.
Rich: Len also wanted to know if there was going to be, possibly, a rather
exclusive web place for owners of X-1000 to discuss things in a non-forum
atmosphere.
Trevor: The beta testers obviously will have their own distribution lists and
be able to have technical conversations without the glare of publicity. I think
there is a Yahoo group for the X-1000. So it would make sense for people to
join that.
Rich: You specifically mentioned the A1 linux group.
Trevor: There is a Yahoo group already. There are a few people, but not too
much going on there at the moment.
Rich: This is getting more closer to the software side of things now and
obviously you are a hardware company. Have you been in contact with any other
software developers coming to you and asking you for advice on what you might
need to help push sales of your machine?
Trevor: We've heard lots of inquiries from some serious, some not, it's the
usual mix, from developers all around the world, so I've actually been quite
surprised. There are a number of linux developers who want to develop linux for
it. Various linux distros. But, we've also had inquiries from AmigaOS4
developers who've got specific applications they want to look at. You know,
to do graphics, or video, typical Amiga type applications. And, I've also
contacted, myself, a number of guys who I would like to see them produce ports
for the X-1000 which will also benefit other AmigaOS4 users, whether it is on
A1-XE or SAM or Pegasos.
Rich: What do you think right now is probably the most important port that
should happen? You don't have to give names of specific software, but just
generally. What do you think is going to help the community the most, next?
Trevor: It depends on whether you are looking from a daily use point of view or
a specific application point of view.
Rich: I would say daily use.
Trevor: If you want to use it as your main computer, then you need to have all
of the attributes that people expect to see when they open up a computer screen.
I think linux is a good example. Although of course there are so many linux
distributions out there, but they really all come down to the same thing. Sorry
linux guys. It is one or other of a workbench. We don't call it Workbench in
linux, but it is KDE, Gnome, and a bunch of programs like Firefox, Open Office,
and those kinds of applications. But of course, with the cloud computing coming
along, it is changing the whole game. If we could be compatible with those, and
we are already with Google Docs. But with the other things coming along, I did
run, sort of, Microsoft's Silverlight on an A1-XE. It wasn't very good, but it
does mean that with the cloud computing, perhaps some of these applications will
be machine independent. Now, that is just another aspect or avenue that I think
is quite interesting.
Rich: Well personally, I can't see myself getting into cloud computing. I've
used Google Docs, but...
Trevor: You are "old school" like me though. Do you remember Bill Gates, a
long time ago, he wrote his autobiography and said all your computer power is
going to be online. You will have nothing at home, but a terminal. Everyone
would say "No! No! Rubbish! Rubbish!". But I'm afraid it is going that way
slowly isn't it?
Rich: Yeah, but I think also that the whole privacy thing...
Trevor: That is my concern. Do you want all your personal details, bank
details, credit cards, personal correspondence sitting somewhere else? If you
were commiting a Cyber crime, that would be wonderful.
Rich: Nothing is impenetrable.
Trevor: No, nothing is impenetrable, but neither is your house. And if you have
a computer at home, it depends where you draw the line I guess. But I think that
is an interesting development. I think that will open up a number of avenues for
OS4.
Rich: I'm just kind of...
Trevor: You're skeptical, I know. It's okay. I'm "old school" as well.
So, I can see where you are coming from.
Rich: Us old "codgers" have to stick together. Another question from... I'm
not even going to try and pronounce the name because I will probably just
butcher it. I'm sorry if I'm kind of all over the place here. There are just
so many questions, I couldn't group them.
Trevor: Just fire away.
Rich: Is there going to be a full-scale Radeon or any other hardware drivers
developed that you know of, so more cards can be added to the X-1000?
Trevor: Third parties are working on drivers for the hardware, like wireless
network cards, but obviously it is for AmigaOS incorporated with Hyperion,
and Radeon support will be greatly improved. I mean, already in the demos we
did, we added a Radeon X-1550 and X-1950 running at the show. Hans de Ruiter
will be putting the input on that. So yes, I do expect there will be much
improved Radeon support.
Rich: I had another question from Phillip over there in the U.K. about the
X-1000 taking the latest high end R800 chipsets for Radeon cards.
TIME: 35:13
Trevor: Initially we have said R700, so they are not the latest, but it all
comes up to what is available and what we can get at a good price. At the end
of the day, you will see Radeon support greatly improved, and then we will use
that to source the best cards for the job.
Rich: So basically, just get something out there that is relatively up to
date, and then move forward from there. So I'm going to head back over to
Eddie's questions here. Going back to the time of the teaser site and all
that kind of stuff, were you waiting for the whole legal process to smooth
out before you decided to say something to people?
Trevor: Yeah, we didn't want to say anything that might jeopardize Hyperion's
position with AI. Obviously we were taking a leap of faith, back to your
church idea, a leap of faith in putting money into paying for the development
even before the settlement agreement between Hyperion and AmigaInc. So,
that's why we didn't want to release anything and I think it was last October
when Hyperion made a cryptic announcement on their website about their most
ambitious project. And that was the start of getting the information out that
something was going on in the background and that was after the settlement
agreement was made public.
Rich: Eddie said that up until recently, A-EON has been kind of secretive when
it comes to your over-all plans. I understand why you would want to do that
obviously. But he also had a question, do you think you are taking
yourselves a little too seriously on that? I don't know about the second part
of that question.
Trevor: Secretive? It's better not to say anything if you've got nothing to
say. If you've got nothing to show, it is better to produce something.
Rich: (sarcasm) Yeah, let's make an announcement of an announcement.
Trevor: I know I've been very communicative with the community over the last
6 months. I have given lots of interviews to all kinds of Amiga magazines,
Commodore magazines. I've tried to have been as open and honest as possible
within the constraints of trying to run a business. It is not my main
business and I got accused by someone of treating it like a hobby. It is more
than a hobby. I'm a passionate, committed enthusiast, so it is much more than
a hobby. And I've spent quite a lot of money on it. It is obviously
important that we come out with a product that people will use and buy. Now
if they do that, I'll be happy, because then I'll have a system and then we
will have a little bit of money to go onto the next level, the next phase.
Rich: Speaking of next phase, that was something else. Do you have an
extensive road map? You don't have to reveal any details.
Trevor: I can be totally honest and say one thing about being small, and A-EON
is very small, is that you can be very flexible and very adaptable. You can
change course very quickly. One of the things that obviously Hyperion
Entertainment want to do, and it started when they got their dual-core CPU way
back, is SMP support. I think they will use the A1-X1000 as the prototype for
bringing multi-processor support into OS4. And then that opens the door up
with a lot of things that are coming along. Some of these CPUs are coming
along with 4, 8, 16, 32 cores. The A1-X1000 will open up that door for OS4.
Although that is not a direct plan, that is the way I see us developing the
system, and that would mean in the future that we would hope to see even more
powerful machines, and also less expensive machines.
Rich: So basically you are saying you've got a broad roadmap, but how you
actually get there...
Trevor: A broad roadmap, but let's get one step at a time, hopefully forward.
With the occasional giant leap. Let's get the AmigaOne X-1000 out there.
Then let's see if it is commercially successfull. Let's see if the community
really wants it. They say they want a powerful Amiga. Let's see if they
really do want one. And then we'll take it from there.
Rich: One thing that I've noticed from my browsing of some of the forums is
that a lot of people have not complained that it is an underpowered machine for
a modern kind of computer. Granted, you have to use a little bit older
components here and there but it seems like a lot of people are very receptive
to the whole thing.
Trevor: I've been pleasantly suprised by the support that we are getting as
a whole. But of course you are the flavor of the day one month, then you are
the devil next month. Let's just go one step at a time.
Rich: So your target market obviously is probably much larger than just Amiga
hobbiests. Where would you like to see the X-1000 go beyond the amiga
community?
Trevor: Let's be straight. My market is the Amiga market. I am an Amigan.
I want a Power Amiga for the Power Amiga users. That is my primary market.
I am honest about that. There is obviously the Xmos market, and a very
thriving and active Xmos community. We may have a number of systems we can
sell to that community. And then there is the power linux community, which is
obviously very dedicated to using the PowerPC for linux. That is another
community which I think we must make in-roads into. Now, those three alone
should make the A1-X1000 successfull, which means we can go onto the next
phase which would be: How do we get the price down? How to we leverage some
of these new CPUs which have multi-cores.
Rich: Do you guys kind of have an idea of where that might go?
Trevor: I have always been impressed with ACube's products. The SAM boards
and the new 460 that is coming out. I think that will be a nice machine. I
would like to see an "Amiga laptop". I really would like to see one. I would
use one and I think a lot of Amigans would use one. But, it would have to have
the ability to run linux as well, I think, just to make sure you have all the
applications that you currently want. Unless of course it runs on the cloud
then you could get all the information from the cloud. I think in the future
we may collaborate with someone on that, maybe ACube. There is always the
opportunity for that kind of work.
Rich: So obviously you are a die-hard Amigan. Obviously.
Trevor: I am a die-hard Amigan, for my sins...
Rich: I shall absolve you.
Trevor: My wife said "You really like collecting Amiga computers?" I said
"Yes, yes, I'm a dedicated Amigan." She said, "You know there is a very small
line between hobby and mental illness." I didn't know what she meant.
Rich: I think my girlfriend has said someting about that too. Getting kind
of away, I know a couple of people in the chat room have asked non-Amiga
questions about you. What kind of stuff do you like to do outside the Amiga
community like hobbies or anything like that?
Trevor: I spend quite a lot of time in New Zealand. I've almost got New
Zealand citizenship. So I can spend time in the U.K. and New Zealand.
Rich: Where abouts in New Zealand?
Trevor: A place called Eastbourne, near Wellington. If you think Chicago is
the windy city, go to Wellington.
Rich: My sister lives in New Zealand.
Trevor: I hope she didn't get involved in the earthquake.
Rich: No, she was way North of that, so she was fine.
Trevor: It is quite funny, when I lived in Texas, I never once saw a
cyclone or a twister. I got bad weather and saw damage that had been caused,
but I never once saw a twister. I used to drive from Houston to Ft. Worth,
every second week. Because the parent company was up in Ft. Worth, cow town.
It was a 5 or 6 hours drive. You saw all these massive weather systems
coming across the flat country side, but I never saw a twister. I went to
Cyprus. I was living in Cyprus for 3 years in the Mediterranian, and my
first week there I saw a twister coming off the sea.
Rich: I lived on the northern tip of tornado alley for a couple of years
and I didn't see a thing. I saw a bunch of good storms, but never the
actual storm. You would go in the mall and there would be tornado shelters,
but I didn't even have to look at them while I was out there.
Trevor: My other interest is, I'm a stamp collector as well. I'm focusing
more on Penny blacks. So I'm trying to build my Penny black collection.
That's the first postage stamp from 1840 in Britain.
Rich: I have no clue what a Penny black is.
Trevor: It is the first ever postage stamp with Queen Victoria's head on
it for one penny, and it was black. Therefore the "Penny Black" I'm into
sport in a big way. When I was in Houston, I used to go see the Rockets play,
the Astros, and the Oilers. Although the Oilers aren't anymore. I guess
there is another team in Houston now. I used to quite like watching the
American football and the baseball. Not so much the basketball, but I went a
number of times. So I like sport. Although, soccer is my game. I was playing
that until about 3 years ago when the knees finally gave in.
Rich: Who is your premier league team?
Trevor: Should I say?
Rich: You might alienate some folks, I don't know.
Trevor: I might lose a lot of potential customers.
Rich: You may get a few hooligans showing up at your door step.
Trevor: My premier league football team is Sunderland.
Rich: Okay, I'm not a real big European football fan, so you havn't lost me.
Trevor: Oh good, good, but I've just lost everyone who lives in Newcastle.
Rich: What about baseball, who is your favorite baseball team?
Trevor: It would have to be the Astros. They got to the play-offs a few
years when I was there. I think the Mets beat them one year.
Rich: I bet that was back when they had the rainbow shirts, right?
Trevor: It probably was because the mayor of Houston, Kathy Whitmire, she
had a bet with one of the talk show hosts in New York. Who used to do
Saturday Night Live?
Rich: Al Franken?
Trevor: The one who was a Mets fan. Sorry, not Saturday Night
Live. It's on near midnight on American T.V.. It's the Tonight Show or
something.
Rich: Not Jay Leno, Johnny Carson...
Trevor: I'm probably getting confused with the names, but he's a Mets fan.
They did a deal that they would wear the other team's colors if they lost.
Kathy Whitmire lost because the Mets won. Which it was close, it was good.
(It was a bet with David Letterman)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Houston_Astros#1986_season
Rich: If you follow the Mets now, it's not so good. I've got a buddy
that works at the radio station out in Eudica and he's a big Mets fan,
while I'm a Yankees fan. Everyday that the Mets lose...
Trevor: Rich, you've got to remember what goes around, comes around so I'm
always very careful about scoffing anyone else's team because I know it
will come back in spades.
Rich: Yeah, it did when Boston won the world series.
Trevor: Yeah, when they broke the hoodoo and actually won something.
TIME: 50:15
Rich: I don't think there was a curse, they probably just got a better team.
It took them long enough. So you like sports, you do the stamp collecting.
What else do you like?
Trevor: I like working. It sounds strange, doesn't it. I like being active.
If I weren't active, I think I might fossilize, so I like being active.
Although, my other businesses really don't give me the enjoyment or the
interest that dealing with A-EON does, but they also bring a lot more money in.
Rich: Obviously. A-EON is only one of your companies, you own a part of
A-EON...
Trevor: I've got a number of investments in small companies that do various
things. I suppose my main business is my involvement in a property company
which has commercial properties but that, well I won't say it looks after
itself. Because the person who looks after it works very hard. John, you work
very hard, you do very well, but you are not getting a pay raise. Even with
the world wide economic climate, that business has stayed steady and is doing
well. So, fingers crossed.
Rich: We are talking with Trevor Dickinson from A-EON Technology. Developer
of the AmigaOne X-1000. And, the very quiet Bill Panagouleas.
Trevor: It is because I'm not letting Bill talk. I'm sorry Bill.
Bill: No, that is fine.
Rich: He's still asleep. You know what he is doing? He is muting himself
so we can't hear him snore.
Trevor: Before you ask your question. I recorded a number of your shows.
Can I say IPod? That's what AmigaInc tried to do years ago. They were just
too far ahead of the game. Being first doesn't always mean you do it. I put
them on the IPod when I was on a vacation with my wife on a cruise somewhere.
She made me get out every morning and exercise so I didn't put weight on
because they feed you too well on these ships. I listened to Amiga Roundtable
every morning as I walked around the deck for two miles.
Rich: Trevor you have just inflated my ego to beyond the size of the capital
region of New York.
Trevor: Sorry Bill, go ahead and ask your question.
Bill: When you say maybe in the future Amiga will have multiple cores and be
more and more powerful. I was wondering if at some point it would be powerful
enough to run the one key application that everyone wants?
Rich: Aw come on!
Bill: Snowman Maker. (ultimate sarcasm)
Rich: Look! Snowman! He can dance and he can jump, and he can run.
Trevor: We shouldn't be horrible.
Rich: You are right Trevor.
Trevor: Yes, that would be nice Bill.
Bill: It's a viable business market every winter.
Rich: Exactly. I'm just going to leave that hanging right there.
Bill: What about some video editing software though, I mean the blueprint is
available at openvideotoaster.org for video editing on AmigaOS 4.1 or
whatever.
Trevor: What we need to do Bill is get a developer interested. That means
supplying him with a board and say go and do something. That would be the
way to do it I think.
Bill: Maybe macaroni and cheese and Coca-Cola too. Don't forget to feed him.
Trevor: With the beta test boards, I'm making an exception for myself. I'm
going to be buying 5 to give to specific developers to encourage
certain aspects of software or porting. What I might do is we could actually
ask the community who those should go to. What would they like to see
developed? Like a poll.
Rich: That's an idea. Why not? I think that's a grand idea.
Trevor: I've been toying with the idea, but you really want it to go to
someone who is going to get the best return for the community and for the
people who have the machine. And if it is a spin-back or a bounce back
on the other AmigaOS4 users, then so be it, that would be great.
Rich: I think that is a really good idea Trevor. I think that works
fantastic. Maybe you and Bill can talk about it after the show. I don't
really have anything else for you Trevor. Is there anything else you
want to say? We've got 80 some odd people watching right now, hearing you.
That's actually the best turnout we've had since we started doing some of
these recording sessions live on Ustream.
Trevor: It's really nice that people are interested in hearing about A-EON
and the A1 X-1000. Hopefully I've been able to portray that we are
not just a "me too", like we can stick the Amiga name on something and
people will come and buy it. It is not that kind of business.
Bill: Your not selling stickers? That's good.
Trevor: No, I'm not going to sell stickers. Although I've got a bag of
them if you want one. No, I'm just joking. Haha!
Rich: Could you send me one? I'll put it on my Mac.
Trevor: I have got some nice enamel badges for the beta testers, so each
one will get an enamel AmigaOne X-1000 beta tester badge, which I
imagine might sell well on E-bay one day.
Rich: At least your not selling T-shirts.
Trevor: I think you know that AmigaKit are our world-wide distributor.
They will be supplying Amiga distributors around the world, any sort of
marketing or branded material will come through AmigaKit. So, I would
look to them first.
Rich: Someone just posted a really good question in the chat room.
What is going to be success for you in terms of sales of the X-1000?
Trevor: For me, I've got to be careful here because I roped in my
business partner Tony on the understanding that we wouldn't lose a lot of
money. (laughing) I hope he's not listening. If we break even and can
then say, "what next?". Even if it means me funding the development of a
product. If we get to the stage where it is worth doing it, then for me,
that is success. In total business terms that wouldn't be successfull.
And that's when I replied to someone the other week, I am passionate about
it. I am committed. It is much more than a hobby. It is much more than
a job. Hobby is important.
Rich: Yeah! What I'm doing right now, this not only ties in to my job
away from these Podcasts, but also just my hobby. It is radio, HAM radio,
broadcast radio, all of that. So, I totally understand that.
Trevor: So I've tried to be as honest as possible in my responses and I
hope people understand that.
Rich: I'm sure they do. It didn't sound like you were trying to evade or
anything like that. Obviously there are things you can't talk about.
Trevor: Good, I won then. Just joking. Is it evasion or avoidance?
Which is the tax man? One is allowed, and one isn't.
Rich: So now we turn the tables Trevor. Do you have any questions for us?
Seeing as how you said you listen to us.
Trevor: Yes, I do listen to you. What I found quite interesting is when
we were working on this project in the background for two years, and I was
listening to all the trials and tribulations. It was interesting that you
were reflecting the mood of the community at the time. If it was up, you
were up. If it was down, you were down. How do you think the community
is now? I think in the last year or so we've seen so much more of a
positive feeling now in all flavors of the community. I'm really
impressed by developers who are developing for all the platforms. Whether
it is for MorphOS, OS4, AROS, or OS 3.x. Do you think my optimism is mis-
placed? From what you've seen over the years, being involved with it, do
you think there is a mood change or will it be the "same old, same old"?
Rich: Everything goes in cycles. I think right now the community is in
a low end of the cycle. There is a lot of negativity right now. For
members that live here in the U.S. you watch the news, for example, and
the whole political thing, and undecisiveness about everything. And now
in America with 9/11 just going by, I think the Amiga community is in that
down cycle right now. There is no place to go but up. The question right
now is, where is the bottom? Kind of like the economy. I think we are
kind of leveling out right now. I know there have been a lot of blow ups
and a lot of ill-will here and there. I personally think it can't go
anywhere but up. I think the X-1000 was a shot. I think you walked into
it at a perfect time Trevor. We were on that lower end. I think you
stopped the momentum from going lower. When you and your partners
announced the X-1000 you really slowed the momentum of going down the hill
in a wagon with broken wheels that could crash into a shack full of
dynamite. I think everything is going to go up from here. I think my
shows with Bill and Sean and everybody is hopefully, going to reflect that
and thank you for those kind words. I even did the shows in cycles because
that is how I was feeling. I was reading this stuff and seeing people get
mad at each other. I obviously got mad on one of my shows. For all you
folks over on Moo who thought I didn't have the audio, I've got the audio.
It is up there and you can grab it. You can hear me swear to your heart's
content. I even used new words.
Trevor: I try not to look at Moo because I thought I was the Antichrist
for a while.
Rich: It depends on who is taking the riddling at the time, who is the
Antichrist over at Moo. You have to catch them at the right time, when
everyone is on their "Meds". That is how I see it at Moo. It is like a
wild west shootout. The question is who is wearing their bullet proof vest?
Trevor: There have been lots of suggestions. I always feel negative when
I say this because the easiest thing to say is, "I can't do it. It is too
difficult." But, do you think there is a way to bring the disparate
community together? Or, at least the business leaders or the technical
leaders in the community together?
Rich: I'm sure there will be. I don't think we have that answer right now.
I think it is coming, and we are on our way to it, but people are just having
too much fun trolling and they don't want to hear anything else about which
system or software is better. Everyone has basically drawn their lines and
once they get it into their thick skulls that we need to be more flexible on
this stuff, that is when you will see people wanting to work together. As
for right now, I'm just going to buy stock in popcorn companies and sit back
and watch until finally somebody else screams "Let's have a beer and take it
easy." Do beer and popcorn go together? I don't know, I've never tried it.
It's like beer and pancakes. I asked a question on Facebook one time. "Do
beer and pancakes go together?" We'll find out. Do you have any more
questions Bill? I think we've pretty much gone through everything.
Bill: My Snowman maker question is still up in the air, but I guess that
one will be determined later.
Trevor: That's a tough one, I'm going to have to duck that one Bill.
Rich: I think we should get someone over here from Hyperion and ask them
if they want to finance a new Snowman Maker application? I think that should
be added to the poll. I'm not serious.
Bill: It would be nice to see video editing come back to the Amiga. It
used to be one of the premier reasons people used it, at least in the U.S..
Trevor: Of course the Video Toaster was massive in the States with T.V.
production companies. We didn't have it in Europe because it was NTSC rather
than the PAL system we use in Europe.
Bill: Yeah, that was Sony that didn't make the chips available that NewTek
needed to make a PAL version.
Trevor: But, having said that. I look at the USA and it tends to have
power users. I used Amigas in my business. I got my first Amiga in 1988,
an Amiga 2000. All through the '90s I used them for video editing and
publishing material for the company I worked for. All done on the Amiga
with Proffessional Page, Proffessional Draw.
Bill: Nice.
Trevor: You can roll off the names of the programs. DOpus, AdPro,
ImageFX. It was there, program after program. Now I didn't use it
a lot for music. That was another big thing it was used for is sound
as well as image. But, it would be nice to think we can get this hook or
whatever application we need...
Rich: To get the past users back, or at least looking again.
Trevor: Hollywood is an excellent product. When ever you produce, you
can present it on AROS, MorpOS, OS4. When I did one of those little
graphic presentations for the Essence show, I produced it in Hollywood.
It looked really nice. I actually re-compiled it for AROS, because you can,
and gave it to Steve Jones of Cluster for his IMica. So, we do talk to one
another.
Rich: Cool. Have you talked about my show? I'm done being narcissistic.
Trevor I want to thank you for coming on to Amiga Roundtable.
Trevor: It was a real pleasure and an honor to actually take part in the
only Amiga live Podcast.
Rich: There have been a few. I don't think there are very many that are
actually active. They are mostly game music remixes.
Bill: Does Windows Weekly count? They talk about Amiga.
Rich: You mean Paul Throts? He used to be an Amiga user. He was going to
come on this show. Something happened where our times didn't mesh. I
tried getting a hold of him for a good month and a half to 2 months and he
never replied. Maybe he lost favor with the Amiga for some reason. I don't
know.
Bill: That was broadcasting on Ustream the same time as this episode and
they only had 34 viewers.
Trevor: Wow. Only Amiga!
Rich: (singing Doommaster style) Only Amiga, makes it possible!
Trevor: Don't, don't, don't.
Rich: It is an honor. We have to invoke Doommaster. Simply because nobody
has heard from him and we can't get anybody to go out and look for him.
Trevor: I bought a SCSI card from him. about 3 years ago and he was
really rude.
Rich: Did it work?
Trevor: I only asked him what the shipping costs were and got a really
rude reply. But, it did turn up, and it worked, so I shouldn't
complain.
Rich: That's one point for Doomy. Trevor thank you for being on here.
Trevor: It's a real pleasure and if I can help you out in the future just
give me a shout.
Rich: You have an open invitation to come
on the show whenever you like. You are more than welcome. If you hear us
say something that is totally false, feel free to come on and set us straight.
You can even call us "doody heads" or whatever.
Trevor: Thank you for making it quite painless. I appreciate that.
Rich: We enjoy painless. Especially when going to the dentist.
(to audience) And we are going to wrap things up, so stick around, we'll be
right back.
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Rich: And that is going to wrap it up for this episode of Amiga
roundtable. I want to thank Bill P. as well as our very special guest Trevor
Dickinson from A-EON Technology. If you would like to get a hold of us here
at Amiga Roundtable, you can do it by e-mail at
amigaroundtable@gmail.com . You can also stop by our website:
www.amigaz.org. Amiga Roundtable is a production of AmiZed Studios for
Bill P.. I'm Rich Lawrence, thanks for listening.